Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 05:00:14 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #290 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Wed, 7 Oct 92 Volume 15 : Issue 290 Today's Topics: Amber Automated mail > file cat & decoding ? Controversy over V-2 anniversary (7 msgs) Mars Observer trajectory Pioneer Venus Out of Fuel, Orbit Deteroriating Population They Might Be Giants (2 msgs) V-2 anniversary Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both? (2 msgs) Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding) With telepresence, who needs people in Earth orbit? Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 6 Oct 92 12:14:59 GMT From: John Roberts Subject: Amber Newsgroups: sci.space -From: joe@montebello.soest.hawaii.edu (Joe Dellinger) -Subject: Re: Amber (Was: Re: Population) -Date: 5 Oct 92 05:57:51 GMT -Organization: School of Ocean and Earth Science Technology -In article <9210010007.AA08683@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov>, roberts@CMR.NCSL.NIST.GOV (John Roberts) writes... -> I believe the current (and recent) record for DNA extraction is ~25 million -> years, for a termite trapped in amber. Reconstructing the entire genetic -> code from DNA fragments and using that code to produce a living organism -> are additional challenges. - In the Sept 1992 "Natural History" magazine, Stephen J. Gould -writes that the "current" record is for chloroplast DNA from preserved tree -leaves in the Clarkia lake beds, 17-22 Million years old. The Clarkia -preservation is extremely unusual: leaves falling right into an anoxic lake -bottom, rapid burial, and an anoxic environment continuously maintained until -present. Even so they still haven't managed to get nuclear DNA.... yet. - He says the "previous" record was from a 13000 year old Sloth. -From .013 to 22 is a pretty healthy jump! I believe the previous record was some millions of years less, but still millions of years old, and was also nuclear DNA extracted from an insect (loosely speaking) trapped in amber. The termite DNA announcement showed up in the newspapers in the last month or two - and it's not unusual for monthly magazines to have several months delay for publication (to say nothing of the time required to write and proofread the article). John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: 6 Oct 92 13:45:39 GMT From: Borre Ludvigsen Subject: Automated mail > file cat & decoding ? Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,alt.binaries.pictures.d,sci.space In article <1992Oct5.095452.24605@dhhalden.no> borrel@dhhalden.no (Borre Ludvigsen) writes: > Automated mail > file cat & decoding ? > > We need a shell script, program, gizmo that reads a mail spool file, recognizes a > ............ > convert and sluice it to the right directory of anonymous ftp account. > > If anyone has any tips, scripts or code that they think might help, we'd be > etarnally grateful. > > > Kjell Are Refsvik > & > Barre Ludvigsen Repsonders to our question about Automated mail > file cat & decoding, Thank you _all_ for your help and interest. We have downloaded some of the suggested solutions which Kjell Are is looking at now. In spite of my ignorance about crossposting (actually laziness - last time I tried it with my newsreader, it didn't work) for which I humbly apologize to those for whom it may have caused havoc, irritation or anxiety - (Kjell Are did mutter something about it under his breath as he saw what I was doing) - we are very grateful for all the help we have received so far. The answers below are only a resume of the suggestions received. A complete text file of the replies may be found on our anonymous ftp server (158.36.33.11) in the directory /pub/mail. - Barre Ludvigsen ----------------------------------------------------------------- Barre Ludvigsen borrel@dhhalden.no Associate Professor, Architect borrel@sigallah.dhhalden.no Ostfold Regional College bludvigs@ulrik.uio.no Department of Computer Science 73277.3443@Compuserve.com Os Alle 9 *********** N-1750 HALDEN, Norway NeXTMail OK ----------------------------------------------------------------- phone479185400/fax479185485/home479341922/direct479185577ext219 ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 5 Oct 92 20:17:31 GMT From: David Breneman Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article <3OCT199222334167@judy.uh.edu> wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes: Deletions fore and aft... > In past wars >the spoils were the wealth of a nation. The spoils that we took in WWII were >the most valuable of all, technology. The Ampex tape recorders and our entire >television industry was taken from the Germans and developed by us after the >war. Whereas BASF and Telefunken were indeed the inventors of tape recording (as opposed to wire recording) technology, Germany actually trailed the US and Great Britain slightly in television technology. Germany never broadcast television for home reception, but into small theaters called a Fernsehhof or something like that. Although Hitler gave it great lip-service, he allowed TV research to languish and it was the BBC which had the first regularly scheduled television service in 1937, followed by NBC in 1939. The first televised Olypmics, in 1936, were covered by two cameras which never left the Olympic stadium. Many of the great advances in television were made by Philo Farnsworth and Vladimir Zworykin, both working in the US. Germany's poineering efforts in rocketry are undisputable, however, and it's a shame that in many people's minds the technological accomplishments can't be divorced from the political agenda of the government which sponsored them. Interestingly enough, the first US satellite (Explorer?) was launched by the rocket Hitler hoped would rain death and destruction on New York - the Redstone, which Von Braun's team completed in the US after the war. -- David Breneman Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. | ____ ____ ____ dcb@tacoma.uucp | SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez- | / /___ /___/ ..!uunet!tacoma!dcb | "Nylok lock nuts lose their | / ____/ / CompuServe: 75760,1232 | binding strength after 1 use!"| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 03:42:38 GMT From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes: >On 29 Sep 92 15:57:34 GMT, > higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) said: >Bill> Apparently the fact that the A-4 was a nasty weapon that killed lots >Bill> of people overshadows the importance of the anniversary. >Bill> In this country, the Confederate Air Force is allowed to tell us what >Bill> a great plane the B-17 was without visible interference... >The B-17 wasn't built by starving slave labor. The factories weren't >filled with representatives of the "mongrel" subhuman races that could >be worked without food or heat or hygiene until they dropped dead or >were hung "pour encourager les autres". Was the A-4? (I'm referring to the experimental prototypes.) The aniversary was to commemorate the technical achievement of the A-4, not its military ab-use, or the system which produced it. In March 1945, the allies dropped 18,000 tons of bombs on Germany. That does not diminish my opinion of the technical merits of the hardware used. The moral question is an entirely different one. -- +-----+ Bernd Felsche _--_|\ #include | | | | MetaPro Systems Pty Ltd / \ bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au | | | | 328 Albany Highway, X_.--._/ Fax: +61 9 472 3337 |m|p|s| Victoria Park, Western Australia 6100 v Phone: +61 9 362 9355 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 12:49:44 BST From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary > That still doesn't make it right. Not persecuting people for crimes > against humanity because they may be useful to you is wrong. Period. > I am in agreement. However my reading of history does not place the VfR group very much in this. As was stated, they were not in SS, and in fact there were attempts to take them over. Von Braun and the commander there had to play some Byzantine politics to try to stay independant. Remember that the SS existed because the German Army was not considered "reliable" enough to do Hitler's real dirty work. > Furthermore, I think this attitude of yours that nobody's hands are > clean so people can't be criticized without an understanding of their > history is in large part responsible for the decline of modern > morality. You have to step up and take responsibility for your actions, > no matter what--you can't wuss out with an unhappy childhood or a mean > mommy or "everybody's doing it". If it's wrong, it's wrong. > I don't think that is quite what Dennis said. He was defending the rocket team in particular. My own readings of history place me firmly in agreement with him on this. But I do agree with you in other cases: ie see my posting about the unindicted war criminals from OUR side in WWII. The victors define morality to be very simply what we did == good or at least necessary what they did == evil and unjustifiable The above is what society ACTUALLY did, and that is true moral relativism. I don't think that anyone is implying that Nazism was anything but the most evil and perverted government, over all, of any in recent history. But one must still deal with individuals as individuals, apart from their cause, and judge them only on their acts and against a well defined legal standard. Had we done that, I am confident the same number of Nazi's would have swung on the ends of ropes after Nuremberg. The difference is they would have been joined by a couple Brits and Americans. After all, can anyone say the perpetrators of Dresden were other than pure evil? A century hence their names will be damned in the history books and they will be equated with the worst of their Nazi peers. Please note that I do not place much blame on the pilots who flew that terrible mission. The blame is reserved for the officers and planners who knew what they were doing and why they were doing it. Von Braun, in my mind, was one of the good guys who happened to be on the wrong side at the time. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Oct 92 16:01:34 GMT From: Jon J Thaler Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article , amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk says: >> That still doesn't make it right. Not persecuting people for crimes >> against humanity because they may be useful to you is wrong. Period. > I am in agreement. However my reading of history does not place the VfR group > very much in this. As was stated, they were not in SS, and in fact there were > attempts to take them over. Von Braun and the commander there had to play > some Byzantine politics to try to stay independant. Remember that the SS > existed because the German Army was not considered "reliable" enough to do > Hitler's real dirty work. I think a quote from Tom Lehrer illuminates von Braun's attitude: "'Now I'm learning Chinese,' says Werner von Braun." ------------------------------ Date: 6 Oct 92 15:16:59 GMT From: Mary Shafer Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space On 6 Oct 92 04:54:52 GMT, roberts@CMR.NCSL.NIST.GOV (John Roberts) said: [Lots of really good comment deleted, but this is _sci_.space and I can't stay on my high moral horse and complain about the signal to noise ratio when I'm part of the (non-sci) noise.] John> I don't recall the extensive V-2 display you mention seeing John> at the NASM -is that near the missile? It's not an extensive display. There are just a few photos near the base of the missile. They've got the covers off one fin and that's how I could see the bicycle chain. I'm always interested in hardware. The museum has redone the rocketry gallery and it's really nice, too. I'd just spent the week at Langley Research Center, learning about single- and two-stage-to-orbit airbreather and rocket vehicles and I decided that the NASM was _research_. The new gallery was extremely informative, although I was surprised to see that Goddard thought that the fuel system could be pressurized with oxygen. It's incredibly depressing to see aircraft that I saw flying in the museum! Especially when I saw the first flight. Visiting the NASM and the Air Force Museum make me feel so old. Does anyone know if the Goddard that was lauded in the aerial photography/reconnaisance gallery is related to the rocket Goddard? Just a bit more on the V-2 commemoration: I was reading the stack of papers that accumulated in my absence and found the story about this controversy. The article stated that over 60,000 slave laborers were involved and that at least 30,000 did not survive. A German person/group proposed that a memorial to these people be erected at Peenemunde. I inferred (but it was not explicitly stated) that were this to be done, many German or European objections would vanish. -- Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov Of course I don't speak for NASA "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor "A kill is a kill." Anonymous ------------------------------ Date: 6 Oct 92 13:12:16 GMT From: Ryan Montieth Gill Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space Don't forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki people!! Those along with Dresden would have to be some of the most infamous single hours in history. The point is that these events should never have to be repeated in history. Are we all so stupid, as to not have learned from our mistakes? 100,000 plus lives disapearing in a heartbeat is too powerful to ignore. Many people will argue that the A-bombs should not have been used, but then 1,000,000 casualties more would have been suffered by our side alone...We can't second guess the past or try to change it, but we can remember it and change the Future for the better! Ryan M. Gill ------------------------------ Date: 6 Oct 92 16:16:55 GMT From: "michael p.herlihy" Subject: Controversy over V-2 anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1097@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> labrg@emory.edu (Ryan Montieth Gill) writes: > >from our mistakes? 100,000 plus lives disapearing in a heartbeat Ryan, Many more people in Japan died in the fire-bombing raids then were killed by the Hiroshoma/Nagasaki raids. If memory serves me right 90,000+ were killed in the first fire-bombing raid on Tokyo. The overall total number escapes my memory right now. -- Da mihi castitatem et continentiam, sed noli modo. Confessions of St. Augustine, Book VIII, Chapter 7 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:50:23 GMT From: Martin Connors Subject: Mars Observer trajectory Newsgroups: sci.space In article collins@well.sf.ca.us (Steve Collins) writes: > > I have some information on the Mars Observer trajectory. > Now for the data. I snagged the latest trajectory and have the > the following spacecraft state information: > Epoch: 10/5/92 00:00:00 UTC > Position: 1.46030475e8 3.16372935e7 1.30237608e7 km > Velocity -7.02799688e0 3.00312953e1 1.22052289e1 km/sec > relative to the sun in the J2000 coordinate frame. > These can be expressed as classical elements about the sun, but I am > not familiar with the nomenclature that the available software uses. For those wishing to do so (perhaps for use with ephem) the following SHORT listing is posted (available upon request in FORTRAN too). NOTE that the units are AU and AU/day for the Position and Velocity so you will need to convert the above to those units first. This routine is based on Brouwer and Clemence's book (at home right now, title something like "Celestial Mechanics").... #include #include #define pi 3.1415926536 #define twopi 6.283185308 #define radian 57.2957795 #define invrad 1.745329252e-2 main() { double meananomaly, eccentricity, *trueanomaly, *eccanomaly; double lilomega,bigomega,inclination,a; double ax,bx,px,qx,ay,by,py,qy,az,bz,pz,qz; double x,y,z,r,xd,yd,zd,n; double obliquity=23.445785; /* 1950.0 */ double cosl,sinl,cosb,sinb,sini,sino,cosi,coso,cose,sine; double r2,v2,rrdot,sinu,cosu,b,u; double k=0.01720209895; /* Gaussian constant */ /* printf("\n enter x,y,z and derivatives"); scanf("\n %lf %lf %lf",&x,&y,&z); scanf("\n %lf %lf %lf",&xd,&yd,&zd); */ x=1.074433; y=-0.483451; z=-0.214434; xd=0.000163; yd=0.017834; zd=0.00763; /* derivatives are in AU/day - divide by Gaussian constant */ xd /= k; yd /= k; zd /= k; r2=x*x+y*y+z*z; r=sqrt(r2); v2=xd*xd+yd*yd+zd*zd; rrdot=x*xd+y*yd+z*zd; a=1./(2./r-v2); eccentricity=sqrt(rrdot*rrdot/a+(r*v2-1.)*(r*v2-1.)); sinu=rrdot/(eccentricity*sqrt(a)); cosu=(r*v2-1.)/eccentricity; u=asin(sinu); meananomaly=u-eccentricity*sinu; b=a*sqrt(1.-eccentricity*eccentricity); obliquity *= invrad; coso=cos(obliquity); sino=sin(obliquity); px= x*cosu/r - xd*sinu*sqrt(a); qx=(x*sinu/r + xd*sqrt(a)*(cosu-eccentricity))*a/b; py= y*cosu/r - yd*sinu*sqrt(a); qy=(y*sinu/r + yd*sqrt(a)*(cosu-eccentricity))*a/b; pz= z*cosu/r - zd*sinu*sqrt(a); qz=(z*sinu/r + zd*sqrt(a)*(cosu-eccentricity))*a/b; n=0.01720209895/sqrt(a*a*a); /* mean motion in rad/day */ sini=sqrt(py*py*sino*sino-2.*py*pz*sino*coso+pz*pz*coso*coso +qy*qy*sino*sino-2.*qy*qz*sino*coso+qz*qz*coso*coso); inclination=asin(sini); sinl=(-py*sino+pz*coso)/sini; cosl=(-qy*sino+qz*coso)/sini; lilomega=asin(sinl); bigomega=acos(px*cosl-qx*sinl); meananomaly *= radian; lilomega *= radian; bigomega *= radian; inclination *= radian; obliquity *= radian; printf("\n meananomaly, eccentricity, a"); printf(" %lf %lf %lf",meananomaly,eccentricity,a); printf("\n lilomega, bigomega, inclination"); printf(" %lf %lf %lf",lilomega,bigomega,inclination); } anomaly(meananomaly,eccentricity,trueanomaly,eccanomaly) double meananomaly, eccentricity, *trueanomaly, *eccanomaly; { /* This routine finds the values of the eccentric and true */ /* anomalies in elliptical motion, */ /* given the mean anomaly and the eccentricity. */ /* The mean anomaly, eccentric anomaly, and true anomaly are */ /* measured in radians. */ double delta, m, x, y, z; m = meananomaly - twopi * floor(meananomaly / twopi); *eccanomaly = m; delta = *eccanomaly - (eccentricity * sin(*eccanomaly)) - m; while (fabs(delta) >= 1.0e-12) { delta = delta / (1.0 - (eccentricity * cos(*eccanomaly))); *eccanomaly = *eccanomaly - delta; delta = *eccanomaly - (eccentricity * sin(*eccanomaly)) - m; } x = sqrt(( 1.0 + eccentricity) / (1.0 - eccentricity)); y = cos(*eccanomaly/2.0); z = sin(*eccanomaly/2.0); *trueanomaly = 2.0 * atan(x*tan(*eccanomaly/2.0)); } /*end of function anomaly*/ Hope this helps, and have fun.... Martin Connors University of Alberta { accuracy of listing results not vouched for. MC and UA bear no responsibility etc. } ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:47:46 GMT From: David Knapp Subject: Pioneer Venus Out of Fuel, Orbit Deteroriating Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary In article <1992Oct5.051539.26766@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> ins894r@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Aaron Wigley [Wigs]) writes: >Ron Baalke (baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov) wrote: >: The spacecraft's orbit is deteroriating, and it is expected to plunge into the >: atmosphere of Venus within a week. > >What is the current operation status of Pioneer Venus? >Would we be able to get any useful data as it enters Venus's atmosphere, >or will its method of destruction be of no real use to us? Performace is healthy aside from deteriorated batteries and solar panels. This is a normal affect due to old age in a demanding environment. Our group has been receiving UV imaging and spectral data on a regular basis, since launch. It seems to be that what will stop useful data transimission is atmospheric drag steering the PV antenna away from Earth lock. There is no predicting when that will happen exactly. If for some bizarre reason the spacecraft is not steered before drag starts signifcant heating, thermal overload will be the limiting factor. Contrary to some beliefs, PVO is not simply on a crash course into the center of the planet. It is in a highly elliptical orbit with a periapsis that is slowly decaying. It has a 24 hour orbit period and literally every day, at closest approach, the s/c dips a little deeper into the atmosphere and suffers more drag. The next orbit, then, has an even *lower* periapsis. Around Wednesday, this effect will become so pronounced that it won't be able to continue through the orbit and will have its orbit slowed so much that that periapsis encounter will be its last. Our instrument will be watching UV emission from the plasma which forms around the s/c as it flies through the tenuous upper atmosphere. We expect to see atomic oxygen, CO and perhaps even carbon, although who knows? It's never been done before. -- David Knapp University of Colorado, Boulder Perpetual Student knapp@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: 6 Oct 92 11:53:47 GMT From: John Roberts Subject: Population Newsgroups: sci.space -From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) -Subject: Re: Population -Date: 21 Sep 92 15:21:20 GMT -Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA -In <1992Sep21.064536.19465@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes: ->> Not the only person. A common theme that runs through all environmental ->>debate is that every other species is more important than Man. ->Perhaps you've been reading literature the rest of us haven't. I've never ->seen such a thing. -Oh? You haven't even read about the spotted owl? The environmentalist -position there is that the species must be saved regardless of how many -jobs are lost. Now, there are certainly cases where a specific type of -environmental protection may be worth some job loss, and this may be one -of them, but that is not the environmentalist position. Whenever -someone starts talking about cost/benefit analyses, the environmentalists -do not contest the costs and benefits involved -- they just yell bloody -murder. I've never thought the coverage of this controversy in the popular news media provided enough details for anyone to form a reasonable opinion. One item that was peripherally mentioned was that the proposed logging of the area would be at much faster than replacement rate, so that after a certain number of years (perhaps 10-20 - I don't know for sure), those jobs would be gone anyway. Also, I haven't seen too much mention of the events leading to the current situation. Was the forest land in question always protected, or is the protection a recent change in policy? If the former, then I assume the people who want the jobs cutting the trees didn't all graduate from lumberjack college this year - they must have been cutting somewhere else before this. If that is the case, then why did they keep the industry going full blast until this was the only land left available to them (if that's also the case)? Were they confident that they would be able to get the protection removed? If, on the other hand, the protection was abruptly added, I can see how they might feel they have a legitimate complaint. Does anybody have more information on the events leading to the current situation? It seems to me that the fact that the timber industry wants to cut the trees in the area at much more than the replacement rate weakens their argument - they basically want to destroy a renewable resource in order to enjoy a few more years of prosperity. I'm also not entirely clear on why these particular trees have to be cut - are they all the old-growth timber that's left? John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: 5 Oct 92 22:02:43 GMT From: Morris Jones Subject: They Might Be Giants Newsgroups: sci.space I recently saw a copy of the latest CD from "They Might Be Giants". It's called "Apollo 18", and has some interesting cover art. The booklet features photos from NASA projects from the sixties, and the back of the case claims that TMBG are "musical ambassadors for International Space Year." The ISY logo is also featured. Is this an officially endorsed product? How long have these guys been interested in space? Morris Jones. University of New South Wales. Happy International Space Year! ------------------------------ Date: 6 Oct 92 03:57:33 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: They Might Be Giants Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Oct5.220243.18968@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU>, kmj@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au (Morris Jones) writes: > I recently saw a copy of the latest CD from "They Might Be Giants". It's > called "Apollo 18", and has some interesting cover art. The booklet > features photos from NASA projects from the sixties, and the back of the > case claims that TMBG are "musical ambassadors for International Space > Year." The ISY logo is also featured. > Is this an officially endorsed product? How long have these > guys been interested in space? I have it from reliable sources that just about anybody who's breathing can get just about anything stamped as an "International Space Year" project. I seriously considered getting the sci.space FAQs branded as an ISY effort before deciding that this would take more chutzpah than I cared to display (if not more than I can actually muster). Your message has given me second thoughts. Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey | The restaurant's architect Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory | said every effort had been Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET | made to build McDonald's Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV | 15th outlet in Italy SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS | in harmony with Pompeii. | --Reuters story in *Chicago | Sun-Times*, 18 June 92 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:19:38 GMT From: Steve South Subject: V-2 anniversary Newsgroups: sci.space In sci.space techno@zelator.in-berlin.de (Frank Dahncke) writes: >In <28165@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM> wats@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Bruce Watson) writes: >>Trivia question: Which city was targeted and hit by the most number >>of V-2s? >Amsterdam, Holland. Pardon me for asking, but wasn't Amsterdam occupied by the Germans at the time? Was the V2 the secret Ost-Friesian weapon? :-) Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:08:30 GMT From: Hartmut Frommert Subject: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both? Newsgroups: sci.space Mike M. Skala writes: >>he wanted his Vengance-2 weapon, he had better commute the sentence ^^^^^^^^^^ I'm somewhat confused: I remember that my father told me (and I probably read) that A-4 and V-2 are acronyms for A-4: Aggregat 4 V-2: Vergeltungs-Waffe 2 [Revenge weapon] A-4 was the original name by the Peenemuende team; A-1..A-3 were preceeding experimental rockets. It was later adopted for the rockets brought to the US. Ther existed also plans for a 2-stage A-5 in Peenemuende. V-2 was the military name for the mass produced weapon. V-1 was another air weapon (I think a so-called "flight bomb", i.e. unmanned aircraft) also used to attack the UK. The Peenemuende team had nothing to do with the V-1 to my knowledge. -- Hartmut Frommert Dept of Physics, Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60, D-W-7750 Konstanz, Germany -- Eat whale killers, not whales -- ------------------------------ Date: 6 Oct 92 13:32:55 GMT From: Daryl Owens Subject: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both? Newsgroups: sci.space Bravo!!!! If it were not for Von Braun and his team coming to Hunstville and doing their thing, I would not be gamefully employed during tough economic times (and I'm not dependent on NASA or the government). Daryl Owens Huntsville, AL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 12:56:44 BST From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk Subject: Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding) > How? If you lowered platinum costs by a factor of 10, how would you > benefit "American Industries Inc." more than "Japan Industries Inc." > After all, Japan Industries Inc. could buy your cheap platinum on the > spot market just as easily as American Industries Inc. > Well, so what? It benefits Terran industry and improves Terran living standards. Stop being so colloquial. This is a planet. We all live on it. A lot of us (here) wish to go elsewhere. Nationalism is for children. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 15:25:19 GMT From: Andy Cohen Subject: With telepresence, who needs people in Earth orbit? Newsgroups: sci.space I'm not sure...but it seems that Allan doesnt support the notion of telerobotic exploration....consider this... If the location can be scanned with enough detail,..then the data transmitted back to Earth.... a vitual simulation can be constructed Earthside. Use of telerobotic interfaces using a form of batch commanding can be feasible... Earthside builds the batched commands using the virual simulation then transmits... The scan is performed again after the completion of the commands as feedback again to the virtual simulation Earthside.... The technical challenges include the scanning device, the throughput for the scanned data back to Earth and the simulation Earthside....all are easily solved... Andy This is my opinion....not MDSSC's! ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 290 ------------------------------